KNWTHEFACTS70 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

The point was that the UHC in the UK is rewarding their doctors and driving better patient results than the US. Yet this is your so called gov't "bureaucracy" where results are still better than the US. You are also wrong about medicine in CAN. The Canadian system is Gov't price controlled and is the reason why many Americans purchase their medicine from Canada(ie.cheaper). In fact there have been a few US politicians that have advocated US citizens to buy their medicine from Canada.

KNWTHEFACTS70 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

When you can't dispute the facts, you make baseless accusations of the people conducting the study. This is typical dishonest right wing tactic. You said healthcare providers need to be rewarded, here's the UK doing just that and getting results. It's just another way the UHC system is driving results superior to the US private system. In fact the head of the Canadian Medical Association wants to bring this same system of reward to Canada. Makes sense.

KNWTHEFACTS70 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

You miss the point. If the US had such "strong libertarian ideals" the gov't would not have bailed out these corps. Which renders your point above FALSE. The reason Canada does not support a private system like the US is because IT DOESN'T WORK. It is not that we are so much more responsible than Amercns but it is that we have the ACCESS to healthcare and utilize the system to better manage our health. Of the US uninsured, 30.4% have an unmet health need due to cost, 7 times higher than CAN.

eilloross (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Also, you bring up an irrelevant point- the UK has SOCIALIZED medicine, where the government provides the infrastructure and employs the workers... NO ONE of importance in the US (not even the most socialist politicians) are advocating socialized medicine. Canada doesn't even have socialized medicine. The liberals here simply want to decide how much to pay for health care, WITHOUT providing it. Under a socialized system, the tax-payers would have to PROVIDE the health care. Nice try though.

eilloross (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Didn't bother to look that person up- only the person you mentioned...oh surprise surprise, Himmelstein is also a Primary Care Doc, Middle-aged, and a tenured professor! Ha, good luck getting American doctors to be able to get "results" from many American patients. You'd need to infect obese people with dysentery to get them to lose weight. Also, good luck getting specialists to take on difficult patient cases where a "reward" is unlikely....

eilloross (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Since when did I support this government bailout?

KNWTHEFACTS70 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

You failed to mention co-author of the study Dr. David Himmelstein. If Dr.Woolhandler is biased then according to your logic, Dr. Himmelstein must be as well. What is his reason for a bias in this? As seen in Sicko, the UK rewards their Doctors for achieving patient results as is done in employment in non-govt positions. Yet they still spend less than half of what the US does on healthcare and are healthier than Americans. How can this possible within as you call it a govt bureaucracy?

KNWTHEFACTS70 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

You have such strong libertrn ideals but you have no prob. with bailing out failed institutions like banks, insurance companies, auto ind. That's SOCIALISM. Where's the big bailout in Canada. NADA. As I mentioned the US study states that the UHC system has done a great job of educating CDNs. Most school campaigns are directives from Health Canada or the provincial gov't. It's logical for a gov't to reduce spending on Healthcare, to educate those that use the service. Not the same in the US.

eilloross (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Excuse me for finding the bias in this doctor, but it DOES exist. I'd imagine a 34 year old specialist doctor with a mound of debt wouldn't appreciate your or Dr.Woolhandler's delegating of altruism (it requires no self sacrifice on your part to do so). As I have mentioned before, Americans are not interested in spending a dime to help health care providers- just spending a dime on health care period. If US wants great health care delivery, the providers have to be greatly rewarded. Period.

eilloross (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

1. America is very unique in that we have strong libertarian ideals, while other countries such as Canada have more socialist ideals, probably stemming from a tradition of having strong central governments in the past. We tend to despise and distrust a strong central government (the Revolutionary War). Free market (or a close proxy) dictates pretty much every facet of American society.2. So you're admitting that it's an educational issue? So I guess our public schools or not doing their jobs...